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Take a pass on the Latin Mass

We are one church and we need just one Mass, this Catholic argues—even if that one Mass is celebrated in any number of languages.

By Ted Rosean
a securities broker from St. Francis Xavier Parish in Wilmette, Illinois 

At one end of the archdiocese where I live, A Mass is held in a gymnasium every Sunday, and a group of lively folk musicians accompany the assembly through a relaxed and informal liturgy. The mood reflects the music. Because it’s a gym, children seem to act less restrained, feeling free to roam a bit. Folding chairs are set up in a semi-circle around a portable altar that this group has used for many years.

There are no kneelers, of course, reflecting to some extent the impracticality of portable kneelers, but reflecting to a greater extent the theology of those gathered: These are “looking up to God in trust, not bowing down to God in fear” Catholics, nurturing a view of church and theology that was born at the Second Vatican Council. I know many of these Catholics and consider them to be very good people. Their liturgy is, I believe, a scandal.

At the other end of the archdiocese, a priest adorned in shimmering vestments murmurs prayers in Latin, facing the tabernacle, his voice barely audible to the assembly of worshipers kneeling behind him. Many of these are silently and privately praying the rosary. At certain moments there is an exchange of words between the priest and the assembly. These words are in Latin.

The atmosphere is reverent, reflecting to some extent the mood naturally created by silence, candles, and Latin, but reflecting to a greater extent the theology of those gathered: These are “kneeling before God in awe, not back-slapping brother Jesus” Catholics, preserving a view of church and theology that was mostly set aside at the Second Vatican Council. I know one of the people in the assembly to be one of the finest human beings alive. He is my father, and his liturgy is, I believe, a scandal.

An outsider observing the two rituals would never guess they belonged to the same church. And in fact, many of the participants at the respective assemblies might admit that they don’t really share a faith with the participants in the “other” group.

This is what makes these liturgies scandalous. They represent such polarized expressions of worship that they drift from the central purpose of liturgy as stated in the introduction of Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Second Vatican Council’s document on liturgy: “to be a sign lifted up among the nations, to those who are outside, a sign under which the scattered children of God may be gathered together until there is one fold and one shepherd.” A church practicing such divergent forms of worship will hardly unite the scattered children of God.

Currently we are many folds under a shepherd who last year stirred the pot with his apostolic letter Summorum Pontificum, sanctioning wider use of the old Latin or Tridentine Mass. Besides allowing individual parishes to conduct Latin Masses at the pastor’s discretion, secondhand reports suggest that Pope Benedict XVI would like to see a Latin Mass offered at every parish. Upon hearing this, I felt a rumbling that I’m certain was John XXIII, the pope who opened Vatican II, rolling in his grave.

The problem with the gym mass is not the gym, or the folk music, or even the lack of kneelers. Gym liturgies I’ve participated in mostly adhere to the rite promulgated by the Second Vatican Council. The scandal is the fact that 100 yards from the gym, a splendid church sits where liturgy is celebrated by the other 90 percent of the parish every Sunday.

Once, when gym repairs required the gym Mass to move back into the regular church for a while, there was some talk that the gym altar should be moved in to replace the regular church altar. Two altars at one parish screams division to me: “Our church is not your church; our worship is not your worship; we are not you.” Such practices divide the Body of Christ—not the sort of thing those who led the council had in mind when they promulgated changes.

In the zeal that followed the council, many well-intentioned but liturgically ill-informed experiments cropped up in parish liturgies. Some of these progressive liturgies, admittedly, went too far and abused the intent of the council’s changes. Many of these alternative practices have fueled the reaction of extremists who now want to rewind church history and drop us all back into a Bells of St. Mary’s world, as black and white as the cassock and surplice of a 10-year-old altar boy. At one end of our church progressives dance to the beat of their very own drummer, while at the other end nostalgic traditionalists turn back the hands of time.

In my judgment, the progressive, alternative masses are much less troubling than the return of the Tridentine Mass. As mentioned, gym liturgies are mostly faithful to the changes promulgated in the council. While they may cross the line at times, at least they seem to be reaching in the direction the council fathers were pointing us towards.

And let’s face it, my generation, the flower-power gang is, well, beginning to push up daisies. Progressive liturgies are fading away as the jingle-jangles of our tambourines increasingly exit . . . stage left.

But prancing in stage right are Tridentine Troubadours, flipping the altar around and turning their backs to the monumental progress of the Second Vatican Council.

What is scandalous about this practice is not the Latin. After discussing the issue with theologians and liturgists Keith Pecklers, S.J. and Mark Francis, C.S.V., both independently made the distinction between the Tridentine Mass, practiced by Catholics between 1570 and approximately 1965, and the post-conciliar rite practiced in the Latin language.

Pecklers explains that the church has, since the council, always allowed the use of Latin in the reformed liturgy. Saying the Mass in Latin is no different than saying it in Spanish or Polish or English.

The reformed liturgy is flexible enough to allow the use of Latin at times. Many parishes replace the Lamb of God and the “Holy, Holy, Holy” with the Agnus Dei and the Sanctus during the season of Lent. Besides being in complete conformity with the changes promulgated by the council, this appropriate use of the Latin can often deepen the spiritual tone of the liturgy and underline the gravity of the season.
But limited use such as this is far different from a complete, 180-degree nostalgic return to an outdated rite.

The Tridentine Mass is not simply the current mass (the one promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970) spoken in Latin. The Tridentine Mass, which dates from 1570, reflects a very different—and incomplete—understanding of the early church. Francis argues that “the 16th-century framers [of the Tridentine Missal] lacked adequate historical resources, for they were unable to refer to manuscripts dating earlier than the pontificate of Innocent III, around 1216.”

A church digging in its defensive heels at the peak of the Reformation developed the Tridentine Mass, taking shots at pagans, heretics, schismatics, and “perfidious” Jews. The rich revelation of the Old Testament is mostly absent, and the participation of the laity barely exists.

Popes John XXIII and Paul VI had some very good reasons to call for an end to the Tridentine Mass and to promulgate a new rite. More sophisticated research uncovered a fuller understanding of how liturgy was celebrated in the early church. Improved scripture scholarship developed the adoption of a new liturgical calendar. Better historical research removed fictional saints.

Perhaps most importantly for the average Catholic, the Mass was said in the language of the people. Interestingly, while the Tridentine Mass began in 1570, Masses were said in Latin as early as A.D. 350. Originally, the Latin replaced the Greek language because people understood Latin, and using Latin allowed more people to understand what was going on. In 1965 the church once again came to the seemingly obvious conclusion that people should understand what is being said at the Mass.

The mass Paul VI and The Council came up with is wonderful, divine, human, and sublime. It works, and it is enormously superior to the Tridentine rite. The church does not need to celebrate an old rite. We need to get more people to celebrate the existing rite.

The stakes are high. We participate in the liturgy to praise God and to be transformed so that we can transform the world. We need to do this together. We cannot gather the scattered children of God together if we ourselves are scattered.

This survey is now closed.

Mass in GYM?

Mass being held in a gymnasium is actually a decent experience,"tried it" if the attendance is fair to good, spirits move...and prayers more abundant...I recommend such a ritual, this may allow spiritual awakenings.

"In conversation with

"In conversation with American Catholics..." Oh really? This sounds pretty divisive and dictatorial to me. You just marginalized a LOT of people and you're arguments are sadly misinformed, as well intentioned as you may be.

There is a job waiting for you in a diocese somewhere as "Creative Director of Liturgical Reunification."

FAIL

Literacy rates

And for centuries when a person received an education they learned latin. So if they couldn't read latin chances were they couldn't read at all. So why take the risk of possible translation errors covering several languages when there was no need? Nowadays however things are different. Literacy rates are in the vast majority, not the vast minority. thanks for the sharing / Church Construction

Response to Pass on the Latin Mass

With respect to some comments in the article please answer the following:
Where does it say in the documents of Vatican 2 that the priest has to face the people?
Where does it say in the documents that the Tridentine Mass is banned?
The answer to both is - they do not say.

The documents do state: The faithful must still know the latin....and it also states the beauty of Gregorian chant - unlikely to be heard in a "gym" mass.
And one last point - if the Tridentine Mass is so old, unpopular etc. then why do so many young people i.e. <40 love and attend the Mass?

Overall - Pass!

If it's a pre-Vat II format -- Let It Go; BUT, explore, learn and value all our beautiful and sacred prayers be they in Aramic, Greek, Latin, French, English, American etc... just incorporate them into and update the liturgy appropriately. The Good News and Eucharist can recall our ancient stories and traditions AND/ALSO speak to us to who we are -- Here and Now. Win/Win for everybody.

If you're not kneeling at

If you're not kneeling at Mass (even though you are physically capable), you are disrespecting the Lord your God, Creator, and MASTER.

Period.

The Latin Mass is the Mass. The New Mass is also the Mass.

"Folk Mass", Guitar Mass, and other abominations are LITURGICAL ABUSE. Pure and simple.

Thank God for Pope Benedict and the new generation who is ushering the baby boomers and hippies into retirement homes and reclaiming the Church for Christ!

From one Dave to another...

Part of me believes "the New Mass is also the Mass."   But part of me wonders if it isn't an abuse in itself-- a departure from TLM, which paved the way for more abuses.   [side note:  Although the guitar in itself is not disrespectful, neither is standing (the Eastern Rites often stand out of respect), the sin is the defiant abandoning of the gestures- like kneeling, folding hands, silence -that we Latins always used out of reverence.]

Part of me wants to believe that Benedict really wants a real liturgical renewal.   But part of me is distrustful.  Could it be that he was just trying to lure traditionalists to (a) come back (e.g. SSPX) or (b) stay,  so as to get / keep more money & contributions coming in?  

Part of me feels BXVI is a "Holy Father" who has "much to suffer."  Part of me wonders, is he a lying & corrupt wolf?

I don't know the answers.  I am a sinner as much as any;  I am as much to blame.  I hope God will forgive me;  I hope He will forgive all of the horrid liturgical abuses which go far, far beyond mere guitars & folk music.   I hope He will forgive all of the crimes committed by (some of) the clergy - not only rape and abuse (as if that's not horrible enough), but also stealing, lying, sacrilege, & heresy.

And to those who won't criticize a pope....

Did you know that when Alexander VI was elected pope in 1492, that G.L. Medici (the future pope Leo X) said of Pope Alexander VI:

"Now we are in the power of a wolf, the most rapacious perhaps that this world has ever seen.  And if we do not flee, he will inevitably devour us all." 

Make no mistake about it, popes can be holy or unholy.  And the Church can go through periods of triumph, as well as periods of severe crisis.  [Does anyone doubt there's multiple crises going on right now?]

Hi Dave

I respect your views and how you expressed them very much.

All I know is, after reading what Pope Benedict has written in his encyclicals, as well as his books prior to becoming pope, he is an extraordinarily intelligent and insightful man. I believe his holiness is exceptional as well.

Seeing that at the present time, and likely for the future, that there is absolutely no connection between him and the abuse scandal, and the fact that he has been the one consistent voice against it and trying to clean it up, I have faith in him as well.

It is a matter of faith, but that faith is bolstered when one gets to know the man. Pope Benedict is a wonderful man and pope, far better than the best of the worst in the Middle Ages.

But let us also remember, given how poor some of those flawed men were, we should not be surprised for Jesus chose very flawed men and women for his ministry (think Peter and his temper/denials, Judas and his betrayal, Matthew and his tax collecting, and Mary Magdalen and her reputation). Even those these men and women, as well as the "bad" popes did terrible things, they never strayed from the Truth in their teachings. They may have said one thing, and done another, but at the very least, they said the right things. Even the criminal popes did not stray from teaching what the Church taught, even if they themselves did not adhere.

Thanks David

You make some really good points Dave.

Thank you for sharing.

Amen!

Amen, David! Amen!!!

Well said, David!!

Well said, David!

We Worship in the Present ... Not The Past.

We celebrate and give thanks for the ENTIRETY -- past, present and future -- of the Paschal Mystery -- the birth, life, preaching, teaching, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ -- Alpha AND Omega.

There is no looking back except to recall and reaffirm the faith that we share -- to BE Children of God who proclaim the WORD of God's Love; to BECOME Body of Christ bearers of the Good News and BECOMING Indwelling of the Holy Spirit to love and serve God and all creation.

Read the Black; Do the Red

Last year, after the Pope's Summorum Pontificum, I asked a very young pastor if he was going to have a Tridentine Mass at his parish. He said that he was not because he wouldn't know how to do it. I told him, "Well, you read the Black and do the Red." to which he responded that he didn't know Latin.

Compare that to our Deacon (my age)who can read Latin and Greek. 'nuff said.

Learn from your Enemies.

Why is it that when Satanists perform a Black Mass they always profane the Tridentine Mass? I believe it is because they know a real Mass when they see one. They know there is no need to mock or profane the Novus Ordo Mass because it is mocked and profaned by the way it is performed (utterly without reverence) in thousands of parishes around the country day in and day out. Many is the time when I have left a Novus Ordo Mass wondering at its validity: never have I left a Tridentine Mass without the deep satisfaction of having spent some time with Our Lord.

Take a pass on your personal preferences

The whole problem here is ignorance of what the mass is.
The mass is the sacrifice of Our Lord to the Father for the forgiveness of sins.
This means that it is not up to us to decide how it is done and it certainly doesn't matter how we 'feel' about it.
We have the obligation to receive and care for what has been handed down and that is that.
What kind of faith do those people have that 'create' liturgy? Certainly they have no concept of the objective worship of the Godhead.
Read and learn about your faith, its a wonderful experience - and work on humilty.

I don't want to Pass

I love the Latin Mass, and I am one of the youth at whom many of the "relevant" innovations are aimed towards. The Church's tradition is just so beautiful. I accept Vatican II's validity, however I'd really prefer if a lot of things from before it were brought back.

PASS!

Great commentary. Primarily, our scripture and liturgical life should be in our modern common languages. The Spirit of Vatican II call for all the faithful to open their hearts and explore our Christian origins, to renew our forms and attitudes of liturgical expression and to dream new ways to pray and become a eucharistic people here, now.

Secondarily, Latin -- along with Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, etc -- words, concepts, prayers and chants from our rich heritage of faith should be preserved; and, a renewal of ways to incorporate these expression into the Church's liturgical life should be welcome as long as the theology and intent furthers the work of the Holy Spirit alive in the documents of Vat II.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/i

Read about and Pray on the documents of Vatican II -- the renewal has only yet to begin.

Our Christian forms of worship and prayer have EVOLVED and been transformed from the very beginning by those who followed The Way of Jesus Christ. In Prayer, Thanksgiving and Service these Christian communities gave expression to the Good News and shaped who we are today -- Catholic Christians -- part of the People of God, Body of Christ.

I am first and foremost for engaging the prayer and worship life of the Church that meet our needs today -- HERE and NOW. There's nothing wrong with using art, images, chants, prayers and poetic verse from the 16th C... 10th C...1st C or anytime past or future JUST AS LONG AS it speaks truth to WHO WE ARE today, yesterday and tomorrow.

Literally transcribing arcane Latin verse as though a sacrosanct incantation seems odd; translating ancient prayer forms into modern poetic form within Vat II theological -- Full Participation -- Clarity -- Renewal -- context is what is needed because it is germane, helpful, appropriate and speak to Who the Church is becoming NOW [not yesterday].

The "Spirit of Vatican II"

This so called "spirit of Vatican II" can be found in the words of the documents of the council. Any interpretation outside of the clear writings of the council is inspired by a spirit alright - just not the Holy Spirit.

I may not be the sharpest tack in the box so maybe you can quote the document, paragraph and line where the great council calls for us to "open our hearts and explore our Christian origins, to renew our forms and attitudes of liturgical expression and to dream new ways to pray.....

I completely agree with your second paragraph although I sense that you meant something other than what was actually written.

Linguistically-based divisiveness

The vernacular Mass has ended up being culturally divisive. In any large city, there will be a dozen or more individual linguistic parishes---English, French, Polish, Portuguese, Spanish, Tagalog, etc. There is little sense of being ONE CHURCH with all those linguistic enclaves, all stovepiped off from each other.

The advantage of Latin is that you can all be together at Mass, with your missal reading your own language, but present TOGETHER, in one diverse body.

Don't take a pass on the Latin Mass

I agree that Latin unites us rather than divides us. Latin is our sacred language just as the Jewish people have Hebrew as their sacred language.

Also, I object to the Tridentine Mass explained as being created at the time of the reformation. The canon is from the time of the apostles, the Mass grew organically and has kept basically the same form since St. Gregory the Great and was in use for 1000 years before the reformation began. St. Pius V codified the Traditional Latin Mass at the time of the reformation to protect it from innovations arising from the Protestant changes to the liturgy. In his enclycial, "Quo Primum" he said that this Mass was to be used in perpetuity and that nobody could stop a priest from saying it or from the faithful from hearing it. He also said that anyone who changed this Mass would bring down the wrath of Saints Peter and Paul and Almighty God. The fruits of the Traditional Latin Mass were many saints, the faith spread throughout the world, lots of conversions and new schools and hospitals built. What is the state of the Church in our present time since the new Mass? Has the faith increased or diminished around the world? Observe for yourselves.

Yearning for home

I am a late baby boomer. I made my first communion at the altar rail, but the Mass was in English. I remember the old Tridentine Masses, and as an adult have participated in a few.

It is like being home after a long absence. This is what gave strength to Saints and Martyrs, and to my ancestors in difficult times.

It connects me to my father, who in his youth was an altar server, and to generations before him. It connects me to my grandmother, that was a member of the Altar Guild, and to aunts, cousins and uncles that were called to a religious vocation.

It is not theater, it is worship, and adoration. It is the teachings of the Church, universal, and in communion and in common across the globe.

response to Take a Pass on the Latin Mass

Take a Pass on the Bureaucracy
I’m going with the Last Supper - not politics.
By John Geis, Director of the “Gym Mass” at St. Francis Xavier Parish in Wilmette, Illinois

I’m the guy that “leads the group of lively folk musicians who accompany the assembly through a relaxed and informal liturgy.”
Just for the record, the Gym Mass Music Group is made up of rock musicians, jazz clinicians, classically trained string players and a few wind players. Ages 16 through 65. But that’s not why I wanted to respond to the article. It was more the authors remarks, albeit out of context, as cited below.
“I know many of these Catholics and consider them to be very good people. Their liturgy is, I believe, a scandal.” and, An outsider observing the two rituals would never guess they belonged to the same church. And in fact, many of the participants at the respective assemblies might admit that they don’t really share a faith with the participants in the “other” group.

This is what makes these liturgies scandalous. They represent such polarized expressions of worship that they drift from the central purpose of liturgy as stated in the introduction of Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Second Vatican Council’s document on liturgy: “to be a sign lifted up among the nations, to those who are outside, a sign under which the scattered children of God may be gathered together until there is one fold and one shepherd.” A church practicing such divergent forms of worship will hardly unite the scattered children of God.”
I disagree. The change from Vatican II that had the most immediate effect on the lives of individual Catholics, was the revision of the liturgy. The central idea was that there ought to be greater lay participation in the liturgy.
The Vatican II people established guidelines to revise the liturgy, which encouraged greater use of the vernacular (native language) instead of Latin, particularly for the biblical readings and other prayers. As bishops determined, local or national customs could be cautiously incorporated into the liturgy.
C’mon now, you don’t really need a church to have Mass do you? The real Mass is based on The Last Supper, and “for wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them." --Matthew 18:2
There is no right way to say Mass my man. It’s the liturgy of the Word and the liturgy of the Eucharist. Everything else is frosting. I’ve been to Masses said in the mountains of Peru with scraps of bread divvied up amongst the hungry people present and I’ve been to High Masses - and from what I can tell there was NO difference. Why is the “right” way and place to say Mass so important?
The Church believes that through apostolic succession, it is the continuation of the Christian community founded by Jesus. This is a view shared by many historians. The Church has defined its doctrines through various ecumenical councils, following the example set by the first Apostles in the Council of Jerusalem. On the basis of promises made by Jesus to his apostles, described in the Gospels, “the Church” also believes that it is guided by the Holy Spirit and so protected from falling into doctrinal error.
The last, above sentence has been plaguing the church for hundreds of years. Just as the Church will readily admit that though the Pope can speak ex cathedra he is human and therefore not free from sin. Similarly, though the Church has its dogma, it took them 350 years to officially apologize for summoning Galileo to an inquisition - accusing him of being a heretic and ruining the remaining years of his life. What the heck is wrong with “the Church”? We all knew WAY before 1992.
Just like we all know that it really doesn’t matter where you go to Mass - or if there’s a salsa band playing during Communion. God smiles on us at Mass - in gymnasiums and churches scattered all over the world.

Of course there is a right

Of course there is a right way to say Mass. It is the way the Church has laid out. Either the Church is the Body of Christ, built on the Rock of Peter, and under his authority, as given by Christ, or it is a purely human construct.

The mass is based not just on the Last Supper, but also on the sacrifice of the Cross. Does God "smile" at all masses? I am not so sure. Some are sacriligious, like the one at the gym at St. Gertrude's in Chicago, where the Sacred Species are thrown on the floor and walked on, among other unspeakable horrors.

It all matters.

Tradition with a capital T

John Geis said,
"There is no right way to say Mass my man",

to which I reply, Oh yes there is - put in a very simplistic way, easily understood,

Say the Black, Do the Red.

Simple, to the point, solves everyone's problem around the world. If you don't understand, then ask your local RCIA director, read the Catechism and learn about your faith.

Response to Pass on the Latin Mass

Dave Phillips makes many good points, and I would only add that the use of inflammatory language in the Sounding Board article, the use of "scandalous," for example, is polarizing to your readers. I would hope that Mr. Rosean is truly seeking unity, and in the future he would chose wording aimed to educate and to invite discussion of the subject in a spirit of mutual respect.

Response to "pass on the Latin Mass"

I say all of the following without anger and with respect and love, but I hope it will be food for thought for some.  I am astounded by much of what I just read: 

How could John XXIII be rolling over in his grave by the use of the Latin Mass in every parish?  The pre-Vatican II Liturgy was all he knew, and all he ever celebrated.  In fact, this Missal that Benedict liberalized is called by Benedict "the missal of Blessed John XXIII" !!!!

How could the Tridentine Mass, a Mass used by Catholics for centuries, a Mass that Father Faber called "the most beautiful thing this side of heaven," be called a scandal equivalent to the scandal of modern liturgical chaos and disobedience?  This is ridiculous.

What is also seldom mentioned is that for centuries before Trent, the Roman Liturgy resembled the Missal of Pius V much more than it did the Missal of Paul VI.

Even when one attends the Liturgies of the Eastern Rites,  from the Coptic church rooted in St. Mark to the Indian rites rooted in St. Thomas, even though they differ in many ways from the Roman Liturgy, there one always finds:   beautiful vestments, sacred rituals, incense, profound reverence and respect, and the unique role of the ordained priest so clearly demonstrated.   One does not find informality or fun in any of these Eastern liturgies.  So one can't say this way of celebrating Liturgy began at Trent.

The Roman rite had unity from Trent up until the liturgical revolutionaries took over in the 1960s.  This refusal of the Modernists to conform- even to the norms of Paul VI's new missal- are what led to the disunity the author mentions.  I am not saying that the Mass can never change or that developments should not occur... I am saying that many Catholics - many of them good and sincere people as the author mentions- lost their liturgical compass after Vatican II.   I'm not sure that unity can occur between these two groups.  I think Benedict was trying to restore the liturgical sense to the Church.  What's somewhat encouraging to me is that many of the newer priests have a more solid formation theologically and are returning to Tradition.

-Dave Phillips

Oh Spit! What an awfulf reply!

Yes, take a pass on the pre-Vat II Latin Mass and it's constructs.
The use of the term 'scandalous' in the article was unfortunate; but, at least it was part of a coherent article. So, Blessed John XXIII more likely would be chuckling that there still remains misbegotten hold-out ideas to renewal and reform.

Spot on. Awesome Reply.

Spot on. Awesome Reply.

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