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In Latin.
56% (2015 votes)
In a translation of the Latin that is as literal as possible.
28% (1018 votes)
In a translation that is in natural, easy-to-understand English.
16% (557 votes)
Total votes: 3590
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Thank you for taking the time to take this month&#39;s poll.
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<p>
In this month&#39;s <a href="/translations">Sounding Board survey</a>, Bishop Donald W. Trautman argues that the new translation of the Missal is incomprehensible. Read about the changes and tell us how they sound to you.
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<h5><a href="/translations">Please take our entire survey on the new translations of the Roman Missal by clicking here.</a> </h5>
<p>
The results will appear in the July 2010 issue of <em>U.S. Catholic</em>. <a href="https://www.cambeywest.com/usc/uscpaids.asp" target="_blank">Order your copy today! </a>
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<a href="/poll">Take other polls here.</a>
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Comments

Submitted by Giovanni A. Cattaneo (not verified) on

By your logic:

1. Children should never do things they don't think are cool.

2. Human beings of the 21st century do not have the ability to learn and retain knowledge.

3. Apparently priests or members of the clergy are or should be incapable of committing sin. Like donatism in reverse.

Submitted by The_Truth (not verified) on

"1. Children should never do things they don't think are cool."

Sorry, that is not a logical response whatsoever. However, in the classroom, do children learn more when their teacher is boring or when their teachers is able to bring out their enthusiasm? So let's bore them to death in Church with antiquated words. Great idea.

"2. Human beings of the 21st century do not have the ability to learn and retain knowledge."

Another fallacious illogical response. I can learn Klingon too, but I'm sure I have better uses of my time. Perhaps the Olympics should do all of their broadcasting in "the original" Greek. After all, surely we "have the ability to learn and retain that knowledge." I'm sure it would really help NBC's ratings when people get disinterested and change the channel. Instead, the broadcasters go out of their way to SIMPLIFY how the events work so that the average person can understand what's going on.

"3. Apparently priests or members of the clergy are or should be incapable of committing sin."

If you are referring to the rape of children, they can commit the sin, but then they should be booted equally as fast.

Peace.

Submitted by LatinMom (not verified) on

My five young children almost exclusively attend the Extraordinary Form. They, at the ages of 10,9 and 7, ( the 5 year old is catching on a bit and the 3 year old is just learning to be quiet in the pew)are able to sing the Gloria, Credo, Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin and are beginning to understand how Latin works and they understand what they mean.

When we are in the unfortunate situation of having to go to a reverent Ordinary Form Mass, my children are annoyed and do not like it AT ALL. I try not to influence their opinion, explain to them that it IS Mass and Jesus is there, but they can easily tell the difference and prefer our weekly Ordinary Form.

Don't use the old "Latin is dry and boring and will drive the children away from the faith because I was bored and confused as a child" saw. I am so tired of the "collective memory" of those who sadly came of age in the heyday of Vat II.

Latin HAS a PURPOSE. It UNTIES. Everyone is on the same page. If we all used Latin in our Masses we would attain the true unity that those of the 60's Vat II generation continually jabber on about. Where color and class have no place. Hispanic, Black, White, French, German, Asian, etc., would all have to follow along in their missals but yet still be in the church TOGETHER. Instead, there is more division since the introduction of the vernacular. You can't have it both ways.

Submitted by The_Truth (not verified) on

I'm glad your children enjoy it. Per my earlier post, I've experienced that your story is more of the exception than the rule:

Different Types of Mass

Something tells me that your kids would probably like Mass better if the priest compared the Jedi and the Sith from Star Wars to the concepts of Good and Evil contained within the Bible or if they were able to make analogies to things like iPods, Wii, Facebook (for older kids) and then the kids could actually have a common frame of reference.

"Don't use the old "Latin is dry and boring and will drive the children away from the faith because I was bored and confused as a child" saw."

I never made any such claim about myself.

"Latin HAS a PURPOSE. It UNTIES. Everyone is on the same page."

Ah yes... that must be why it is the universal language around the world uniting all of us. I've been to 6 continents and whether it was for business or pleasure, Latin was never the universal language, but "amazingly" people sure knew English.

"Where color and class have no place... would all have to follow along in their missals but yet still be in the church TOGETHER."

That makes absolutely no sense. By speaking a language that hardly anyone knows, it will bring people together? OK. Perhaps everyone should start "speaking in tongues" as well to unite everyone in their own "secret language."

Peace.

By the Truth...

Not being flip or confrontational here...but have you tried having your kids learn the basic prayers in Latin...my 4 year old can already say most of the Sanctus in Latin, and my other 4 (10, 12, 14 and 18) can easily say (and sing) the remainder of the Ordinary in Latin. It just isn't that hard to do, and they actually concentrate on what they are saying. And yes, they "know what it means"...it means pretty much the same as the Gloria, Holy Holy and Lamb of God in English! Our children's choir sings the Introits and simple Propers in Latin as well as some motets. We go over the translations (usually a sentence or two) as we learn them.

But the greatest benefit of this approach is their knowledge that THEY are singing the same music that a young child would have sung in 1510, 1610, 1710, 1810, 1910 and every year in between. They become a part of the Church through time, not just the Church in our present world. They feel important and included in a way that singing "Fly away Butterfly" just doesn't do.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on

"Not being flip or confrontational here...but have you tried having your kids learn the basic prayers in Latin...my 4 year old can already say most of the Sanctus in Latin"
Hi Jeffrey... I appreciate your post.
Let me begin by saying that I have a Master's in Communication with a special emphasis on how children relate to various forms of it. Communication is about people being able to share common frames of reference. As an example, say in Dances with Wolves, Kevin Costner and the natives can't communicate and they learn by utilizing items that they find in common (e.g. "buffalo" vs "tatanka").
Now with that said, as someone who was brought up as a Cradle Catholic, I was literally able to recite the entire Mass by the age of 5 or 6. However, just because I could have "said" the Mass doesn't mean that I "understood" it. There is a big difference there.
The way the CC communicates and the way Jesus did in the Bible are polar opposites. The CC makes things ridiculously complex for the average person and fills their lexicon with jargon up the yingyang. In contrast, Jesus spoke in overly simplistic terms so that everyone could easily understand what he was saying from a young child all the way up to an intellectual.
Continued...

[COMMENTED EDITED: Per our comment policy, all multi-part comments will be deleted.]

Submitted by Giovanni A. Cattaneo (not verified) on

Let us look at your logic. Forty years after "the spirit" Vatican II was unleashed we have less vocations, less devotions, less understanding of the faith, and this to you is bringing out the faithful's enthusiasm? The cold hard facts are difficult to argue against but apparently for you mean nothing.

Let us look at the list of things you equate to each other in this rant:

a. You compare the official language of the Western Church that has served her well for 1,600 years that ties us to the earliest days of Western Christianity to which have inspired countless works of art from incredible architectural feats to Musical Masterpieces that will outlive us all, you compare that to, a language made up by a 1970s Sci-Fi TV show. I would say this is a FAIL for you.

b. You compare the greatest prayer in all of Christianity the steps that take us to the summit that is the blessed Eucharist to which countless Martyrs gave their lives for proclaiming and countless Saints prayed as they proclaimed the Gospel through out the world the Holly Sacrifice of Calvary you compare this to, getting higher ratings for NBC's Olympic coverage? I would say this is a FAIL for you too.

It is no coincidence that most if not all of the people implicated on most of these crimes were zealots and had true hatred for tradition, from the Mass on down.

So yes, I do support your push for the destruction of the lavender priesthood.

Submitted by The_Truth (not verified) on

"You compare the official language of the Western Church that has served her well for 1,600 years"

Yes, no problems with the Church during that time frame. It was a utopia.

"I would say this is a FAIL for you."

Do you have countless hours of studying Communication under your belt from experts? I think I have a pretty good understanding of it. So getting a "fail" from you is rather comical.

"You compare the greatest prayer in all of Christianity... to, getting higher ratings for NBC's Olympic coverage? I would say this is a FAIL for you too."

I'd say this is a fail for you since I didn't do that. Sorry that you missed the point.

If anything, I've preached the EXACT quotes of how Jesus said to pray. Amazing that he never said that it should be in Latin nor that you should be saying any of the other prayers that you do. But hey, it's "just" Jesus... what did he know? It's amazing to me that people ignore the words and instructions of the Savior they are supposedly worshipping.

"your push for the destruction of the lavender priesthood"

I could care less if there are gay priests as I'm not a discriminatory xenophobe/homophobe. I support "good" people being priests, regardless of height, weight, gender, sexual orientation, color, physical handicaps, etc.

Peace to you.

Submitted by Qualis Rex (not verified) on

TT - if you can't believe this is a debate, then that really speaks to your ability to see other viewpoints other than your own, doesn't it? Your assessment of "what kids will like" flies against all real-time experience on the ground. Everywhere a Tridentine mass has been implemented, the churches are packed with parishoners of ALL ages AND there is no shortage of altar boys. If you have some survey or poll to the contrary, saying kids (who are not generally prone to want to go to church anyway) are somehow less motivated when the liturgy is in Latin, then I'd sure like to see it. If not, maybe you might want to open up to debate on the subject.

Submitted by The_Truth (not verified) on

"if you can't believe this is a debate, then that really speaks to your ability to see other viewpoints other than your own, doesn't it?"

I was being facetious as people can obviously debate about virtually anything.

"Your assessment of "what kids will like" flies against all real-time experience on the ground."

I already gave you my own personal experience of "on the ground" reality in an earlier post on here which I even re-linked to a few posts below this one. So first you claim that I can't see different viewpoints and then you say that it "flies against ALL real-time experience" and that it happens "everywhere" which I just proved is false if you indeed have the ability to see viewpoints other than your own which you implied was a trait of yours.

Let's take a random group of 6th graders & give them 4 choices for next Sunday: 1 - Go on a "field trip" to the zoo to "learn" about the Noah's Ark parable, 2 - go to a Mass in which young/hip music is played and where the priest uses analogies like StarWars, iPods, comic book characters, Hannah Montana, etc to explain the Bible, 3 - go to a "regular" Mass or 4 - go to a Latin Mass. I highly doubt the Latin option finishes any higher than 3rd place at best.

Peace!

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