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Is women’s ordination worse than torture?

Thursday, July 22, 2010
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Combined with the recent sex abuse/women's ordination news, the relationship between the Maryknoll Society and School of Americas Watch seems to give the impression that women's ordination is the worse than torture.

The School of Americas Watch, which protests the military school that taught torture to Latin American militaries, is no longer being supported by the Maryknoll Society due to the SOAW's founder's support of women's ordination.

Father Roy Bourgeois, a Maryknoll priest, started the SOAW in the wake of the martyrdom of six Catholic priests and two companions at the University of Central America in El Salvador on Nov. 16, 1989. In 2008, he participated in the ordination of a woman and responded to Vatican inquiries resolutely supporting women's ordination. Though excommunicated, he remains a Maryknoll priest.

SOAW used to receive a $17,000 general-use grant from the Maryknolls, but this year their application was denied due to Bourgeois' connection to women's ordination. "Given Father Bourgeois' central role as the founder and public face of the SOA Watch, Society leadership has determined that it cannot continue its financial support of that organization without giving the impression that it also supports the actions of its leader concerning the issue of women's ordination," the Maryknoll Society said in an email.

"That is the only explanation we were given, despite the fact that SOA Watch is not involved in the debate over women's ordination and does not have a position on it," SOAW Development Coordinator Michael Baney said. Baney added that they are grateful for the support the Maryknolls had provided for years.

Certainly, this story speaks more to the combative culture and pressures in the church today than to any concerns about the Maryknoll Society's commitment to justice. Maryknoll father, brothers, sisters, and lay volunteer continue to work in dangerous communities worldwide. Their official comment continued: "This decision is not intended to be punitive and is not designed to put pressure on Father Bourgeois, or on the SOA Watch organization and its activities. Maryknoll continues its solidarity with the people of Latin America and the Caribbean, and is unambiguous in its support of the goals of the SOA Watch."

At issue with this case and many others today is the inability of Catholic groups to partner on some social good with people that aren't in 100 percent agreement with the church. If we don't all agree on the fact that women cannot be ordained, we cannot fight against torture.

The same thing has happened in the Reform CCHD Now movement. As Robert McClory points out in "The fight over fighting poverty," Catholic groups were once encouraged to seek out partnerships, even if it was with groups that disagreed with church teaching in an area not related to the work of the partnership. Now such partnerships are used to brandish groups "not Catholic."

This mentality, though, cuts the church off from the rest of the world, rendering it less influential and hampering its social mission.

It's not a perfect comparison, but I'm reminded of what Andrea Riccardi, founder of the Sant'Egidio, said in Pax Romana about trying to negotiate peace with terrorists: "To try to stop violence you have to dirty your hands. If you want to shake only spotless hands, go to your golf club-although even the hands there might not always be so clean."

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Womens Ordination

Fr. Bourgeois is very courageous. I had this very discussion with friends last night after we attended the St. Anne's mass honoring mothers/grandmothers. We love the church, BUT - as a woman I feel ignored, disrespected, not good enough and turned away by my church. I am not called to the priesthood, but for those that are give me one valid reason we cannot be admitted to the clergy. Our sisters here - Sisters of the Holy Name - are undergoing scrutiny as well. They do not really know why but suspect it is for their stance on social justice issues. My church appears to be lacking in any kind of compassion and only interested in sustaining itself. The politics are abominable. I have been on Pastoral Council for the past 2 years and have seen Church Politics at its finest - quite disgusting. This is all about the church retaining its power and perhaps they do not care, but for me and many other women, we attend mass, receive eucharist but do not feel bound to live by these antiquated rules that were made by MEN! I heard an argument last night from another woman saying that the logic is Jesus picked only MEN for disciples. I quickly pointed out that in his time to have mixed genders in a group trav eling with him would have been very inappropriate. Jesus respected us and included us - not so today but the hierarchy in the Vatican - the ones who have condoned and looked the other way in the abuse issues. Disgusting.

Fr. Bourgeois

Mr. Bourgeois is not courageous. He panders to the trendy lefties. I am not called to motherhood which is an extremely high vocation. Apparently I am not good enough.

No woman is called to the priesthood. It is impossible, just like it is impossible for me to be a mother. The Sister's are being investigated for their lack of fidelity to the Catholic faith, including our social teachings.

You don't like rules made by MEN. In the Anglicans they have rules made by WOMEN and many are fleeing. Women clergy in the Anglicans are teaching us a great deal about the abuse of power and how to use church politics to eliminate your opposition.

Jesus respected MEN. He is one. He chose them to be his apostles, yet you think you know better then God incarnate. You have heard of "hubris"? I would remind you that MEN are your husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons.

Women's Ordination

Sure Women's ordination is worse; Torture keeps people in line, ordaining women threatens the hierarchy's power and control.

power and control

John, power and control. That is why some radical women want to be ordained. So that they can exert power and control. Another good reason to not ordained them, besides the fact that Jesus didn't. You prove the Church right by your own words.

Ordination

Fr. J

I believe you would be hard pressed to find that Jesus ordained anyone.

Amos, we Catholics believe

Amos, we Catholics believe he did. If you don't then I suggest you consider another faith.

women's ordination and torture

[comment edited]

That's basically the essence of misogny and exactly what the Roman Catholic Womenpriests are calling for an end to in this Roman Catholic Church.

Such a slam on all women because we are willing to listen to a possible call to priesthood when the current self-selected leaders are not is both un-Christlike and very bad logic.

megan - I send this to you

megan - I send this to you FYI. http://thechristianradical.blogspot.com/2010/07/fr-roy-soa-primer-2010.html. This video was shot on Fr Roy's SOAW national tour (information I found on a SOAW press release re: dates/locations for Fr Roy's national tour, which ended in late May 2010). The tape is dated within the week of the reported May 24 meeting between Maryknoll and Fr Roy about the SOAW funding cut by Maryknoll. My guess is that this is the reason Maryknoll felt they had to cut funding. Listen through to the end of the tapes. Fr Roy has my full faith and support and I trust that he speaks from a place of deep and well-formed conscience. Nonetheless, I am not surprised Maryknoll felt it had to make this decision, based on Fr Roy's very clear statement that, whenever and wherever he is granted a forum to speak about SOA and SOAW, he will also speak about women's ordination. In fairness to Maryknoll, I think these videotaped - and thus fully authentic - statements need to be publicized, to flesh out this story and balance the speculation. Again and again, I have read and heard questions - including my own - that ask why it is assumed that SOAW should be held accountable for the personal beliefs of its founder. The tapes answer that question, I believe. I do not write this in critique of Fr Roy or SOAW. I write in the interest of honesty in general and fairness to Msryknoll in particular.

FYI: SOAW.org to donate to

FYI: SOAW.org to donate to make up shortfall. (same anon who posted above)

What's the problem?

I don't see the problem. Why should this "priest" expect money from an organization with which he has fundamental disagreements? He can get money from Leftists without all that Catholic baggage, so why the act? Certainly it isn't only Catholics who oppose torture.

And Ms. Sweas, your characterization of this and the CCHD situation is not accurate. No one is saying that Catholics shouldn't partner with those who do not share all their beliefs. What faithful Catholics should be able to expect, however, is that in such collaborations, the Church's teaching is not dispensed with when it is inconvenient. Many of us work with those who aren't Catholic, but we don't oppose the Church in order to gain favor with our collaborators.

I'm sure you all recognize that evangelization is essential to social work on a Catholic view, and that there is no separate body of Church teaching apart from its moral and doctrinal teaching.

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