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Would you like a shot with that beer?

Wednesday, May 19, 2010
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Lovers of freedom suffered a defeat yesterday when Gov. Phil Bredesen (D) vetoed a bill passed by the state legislature "that would allow Tennessee's 270,000 gun permit holders to carry their firearms into bars, nightclubs, museums, zoos, and other establishments that have liquor licenses" (YeeHaw! Blam!), writes Faiz Shakir @ Think Progress. Gov. Bredessen described his decision to veto as a victory for common sense, arguing with some justice (I have been known to visit bars, so I can attest) that guns and alcohol are not the wisest of mixes. We can discuss favorite mixes later . . .

This is the second time in two years that Bredesen has vetoed a "guns in bars" bill. The Tennessee legislature overrode his last veto, but a court later struck down the law because it was unconstitutionally vague. An override of this veto is anticipated. According to the Tennessean newspaper:

"Will Cheek, a Nashville attorney who worked on last year's court challenge, agreed that an override probably would succeed. This year's bill was meant to be less susceptible to a court challenge, and Cheek said this measure doesn't have the same problems as the one passed last year. 'The NRA (National Rifle Association) is too powerful, particularly in an election year, for legislators to do the right thing,' he said. 'The governor is sticking to his principles. It's symbolic, but it's also consistent with what he believes.'"

Think Progress's Shakir reports that Rep. Joe McCord, a Tennessee Republican state legislator with an A+ plus rating from the NRA, and therefore a little more freedom to speak his mind on the matter, has criticized the NRA's "unreasonableness" on this guns before drinking bill. "Essentially, NRA is saying to us, if you don't support and vote for carrying guns in bars, we will not endorse you," McCord said. "This line of reasoning borders on lunacy."

The right to carry movement has been gathering steam in recent years (and what better place to blow some of that off than a bar?). Folks seem to want to carry weapons with them wherever they go (it's apparently really, really dangerous out there! Who knew?): to church, to Starbucks, meeting the president . . . According to the National Rifle Association, there are 40 Right-to-Carry states with varying degrees of restrictions from none at all to permit and concealed required. Only a handful of states still maintain significant barriers to carrying weapons, particularly of the concealed variety, including socialist communes like New York, New Jersey, California, and Illinois. You know, the wimpy states.

Otherwise toting weapons of individual destruction is apparently sweeping the nation. Am I the only fella who remembers "Gunsmoke" and "Bonanza"? Based on my long study of the sociological implications delineated by the writers of those westerns, well, just about any western, it just doesn't seem like a good idea for every cowpoke under God's blue sky to be carrying a gun. I predict, if this law survives the veto, there will be much jumping off of horses followed by wild gun firing and occasional, sometimes deadly gunplay inside bars when someone cheats at poker or Marlene Dietrich sees what the boys in the backroom will have. (But what do I know, hapless hippie that I am. Archie Bunker saw this coming ages ago.) Maybe Tennessee could keep the guns and outlaw horses and poker? Let's just leave Marlene Dietrich alone.

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Guns and Bars

A year after this blog was written, it is good to examine the facts of the impact of allowing concealed weapon permit holders to have guns in bars.

This article shows that allowing concealed weapons carry holders to have their guns in bars did not result in the predicted bloodbath. Gun crimes in bars decreased 5.2% the year after concealed weapon permit holders were allowed to carry their guns into bars in Virginia.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news/2011/aug/14/tdmain01-gun-crime-d...

The Real "Wild West"

“Am I the only fella who remembers "Gunsmoke" and "Bonanza"? Based on my long study of the sociological implications delineated by the writers of those westerns, well, just about any western, it just doesn't seem like a good idea for every cowpoke under God's blue sky to be carrying a gun.”

Hollywood is the worst history teacher because they are not in the business to inform. They are in the business to entertain. Historians will tell you that violence against individuals in the old west was rare, and most crimes were committed against institutions like the railroads, stagecoaches, and banks. Criminals avoided individual citizens because they feared angering an armed citizenry.
In fact, in the year 1900, years before any “Sensible gun control laws” were enacted, the murder rate was 1.2 per 100,000 according to the Justice Department. Today the murder rate is 5.4 per 100,000. Obviously, they were doing some things right in 1900, and gun control was not one of them.

When right to carry was debated in Tennessee, opponents predicted blood in the streets would follow. They said traffic accidents, arguments over parking places, and sporting events would end in tragic shooting. Those predictions never happened, and the same will be true with the guns in bars law.

Wild West - Thanks Will Bill

I thought the same point you just made about T.V. shows are entertainment and necessarily distort the history of the Old West.

Being Charitible - Guns and Bars

I'm most concerned about the merits of an argument and addressed this post below based upon merits, but it struck me how uncharitable the post is, especially given recent criticism of the level of charity among posters (who aren't getting paid to reflect before posting).

Mr. Clarke's tone insults people who disagree with him on gun control. The weak, emotion-based arguments addressing none of his opponents’ points make it apparent Mr. Clarke rarely reads opinions other than his own.

I advise the editors U.S. Catholic to devote just five minutes a week reading the column of Thomas Sowell. I believe the tone of the posts will become more respectful if they are occasionally exposed to thoughtful viewpoints that differ from their own.

Are you disagreeing with ME?

I agree that the essay is mostly what you say but as macho gun guys are we really that thin skinned? I mean we're the ones who know that that all high powered hunting rounds are "cop killer bullets", that the difference between a semiautomatic hunting rifle and and an assault rifle is mostly aesthetics. The article makes a good point. Is it a good idea to carry a gun in a bar? Everything I learned from the NRA, the Police Athletic League and the Boy Scouts says no. I know some people go to bars and stick to soda but how many? About as many as go to mass and refrain from Communion. People go to bars to drink. Drinking and guns are on the Don't Do section of every firearms safety list. So can we put aside our sensitivities and answer the question, should you take your guns to town Son? (Johnny Cash reference, not calling you Son, no offense)

Carry In Restaurants

“People go to bars to drink.”

I’ve gone into many restaurants that serve alcohol with consuming. So why can I carry a firearm into a restaurant that does not serve alcohol and not a restaurant that does as long as I don’t consume alcohol?

“Drinking and guns are on the Don't Do section of every firearms safety list”

According to the bill, those who are carrying are prohibited from consuming alcohol, and there are stiff penalties for violators.

I'm not that sensitive

Please read again. As I introduced the piece I said I cared more about the merits than the tone. I addressed tone because frequently the editors ignore the merits of posts here and attack the tone as being "uncharitible."

There is merit to having a charitible tone, especially on a Catholic website.

I'm pointing out how blind they are to their own uncharity of writing off people with opposing view as being simpletons or racists and apparently not exposing themselves to what others actual think (other than out of context soundbites of Rush Limbaugh filtered through MSNBC or the Jon Stewart Show.)

Jerry thanks

Jerry,
Thanks for always bringing facts and reason to the discussions here. The facts are not hard to find, but burst the bubble of progressive propaganda, so some won't look for them.

Guns and Booze

As a liberal gun owner the first thing I learned in Hunter Safety and Jr. NRA is that guns and alcohol don't mix. In forty-two years of shooting I've never once picked up a gun after drinking any alcoholic beverage. As they say in in hunting magazines Old Foghorn is for AFTER the hunt when they guns are unloaded and put away. All NRA members have learned this. I assume most gun owners have. So why whould any responsible gun owner bring a loaded firearm into a bar? If he was drinking nonalcoholic beverages only maybe, but how many people go into a bar to do that? 99% of people who enter bars have at least one drink. My limit has always been Zero before picking up a gun. Is that too extreme? I don't think so. Maybe there's something to the stories of Dick Cheney waiting to get the ethenol out of his system before talking to the cops after he shot his host in the face. So please answer, would you take a loaded gun into a bar and drink? I wouldn't.

Obeying the Rules

“So please answer, would you take a loaded gun into a bar and drink?”

The bill states that those who are carrying are prohibited from consuming alcohol, and there are stiff penalties for violators. You will be surprised to learn that the vast majority of carry permit holders obey the rules. I certainly would not jeopardize my carry permit after going through the training and paying the by drinking while carrying. Would you?

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