Gay and Catholic an oxymoron?
Thursday, November 5, 2009
By Bryan Cones
Comments (20)
Andrew Sullivan at The Daily Dish has a disturbing post about the aftermath of the Maine decision to repeal a law allowing gay marriage:
"After Maine, where the Catholic church actually organized a second collection to raise money to prevent gay people from having civil rights, the situation shifts again. Using a tax-exempt church to raise money to defeat the civil rights of fellow citizens is not too shocking in the age of Benedict. . . . It is time to acknowledge that the Catholic church hierarchy can no longer pretend that it isn't the active enemy of gay people and our families." Sully is accurate on the second collection, requested by the bishop of Portland, which covers the entire state.
Sullivan goes on to quote a letter from a gay Catholic to his pastor about leaving the church.
I admit that I find a second collection taken up during the liturgy to raise money for a political action to be a profound abuse ot the eucharistic celebration. But beyond liturgical abuses, one has to wonder if there is a way for the bishops to advocate for a traditional definition of marriage without completely alienating their own members who are both gay and Catholic.
Or is it true that being gay and Catholic is no longer possible?
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Gay-Married & Catholic too
By Tahlib (not verified) on Wednesday, November 11, 2009These are great comments--rich and varied. I am gay-married and I'll stay Catholic. The church is not infallible because it is led by men. The Holy Spirit guides each of us individually on this issue. I chose to legally marry through the government because I couldn't wait 1,000 years for Rome to get it right. They still have to fix the exclusion of women as priests and allowing priests to marry before they can wrap themselves around the Freedom to Marry. I love our Pope and our church even with the faults. It's sort of like loving the sinner but not the sin.
Catholic and Gay
By Mark (not verified) on Tuesday, November 10, 2009The Church is controlled by a company of old scared men. As is to be expected. What happens after Benedict? What happens if the Curia, in their infinite wisdom elects a Pope who decides that Gay people are people and loving people at that.
Imagine the uproar. Why it would be like Cardinal Roncalli deciding that a second Vatican Council might be a good idea. How shocking to put the Mass into the venacular. Moving from Latin like that. Surprising move that Latin thing. After all I keep hearing that Jesus supposedly spoke Aramaic. So why did the Church change the Lord's langauge.
What did Jesus, say about sin? And the first stone. And what did Jesus say about Homosexuality? ... God made all people in his image. God also gave all people free choice. God also apparently made every person who isn't either like you, wrong or sinful.
Marriage and the Common Good
By Makes Sense--Protect Familes & Kids (not verified) on Tuesday, November 10, 2009There is an excellent (short) video summary of why same-sex marriage does not and cannot serve the common good of society. Click on:
Play the video featured on ythe home page under the heading: Preservation of Marriage
True love has dignity
By Leticia Velasquez (not verified) on Tuesday, November 10, 2009The Church has no choice but to be a prophet in these confusing times. No one who sins sexually can enter the Kingdom of Heaven, according to Jesus. This is immutable, and it is a 'hard saying' for straights as well as homosexuals.
We can not change the truth, we must make our lives conform to it, that is the timesless message of the Church for two millenia.
However, the Church recognizes that sexual temptation is strong, especially in a culture whic seeks to rationalize all types of deviant behavior.
That is why, Fr Harvey began Dignity a ministry to homosexual Catholics who find themselves trapped in the sinful gay lifestyle.
Fr Benedict Groeschel, a psychologist and TV host has the most compassionate words for the brave men and women who are living chaste lives thanks to Dignity.
The Church loves homosexuals enough to tell them the truth with great love and compassion.
Really? "No one who sins
By Anonymous (not verified) on Wednesday, November 11, 2009Really? "No one who sins sexually can enter the Kingdom of Heaven, according to Jesus." This statement reveals a very shallow, misguided understanding of our scriptures.
Gay Marriage
By Stephen (not verified) on Tuesday, November 10, 2009The RC Church should butt out of public matters util it pays taxes. The last time religion and politics were mixed, people were burned at the stake. Have we learned nothing since the middle ages?
A gay couple do not diminish the legal relationship that is marrige. It is not some big holy thing that people pretend it is. If it were, you would work to put an anti-divorce law in effect.
Gay Marriage
By Ron (not verified) on Tuesday, November 10, 2009You realize of course, that every member of the Catholic Church pay taxes, so that give us the right (according to your rules) to speak out.
The real question is, Is a civil union really a marriage or just a contract between consenting parties purchased from the state?
Traditionally both civil and church marriages were recognized as a 'marriage'. The gay community rightfully want their civil unions recognized - so the question now becomes are civil unions marriages or just contracts?
Gay and Catholic an oxymoron?
By Ron (not verified) on Tuesday, November 10, 2009The real question is can the state really marry anyone? Traditionally, a marriage is granted by either the state or a religious denomination. But that is before the gay community forced us to look at what the state is really doing.
Is a civil union any different than two committed people starting a small business in the eyes of the state? Not really. Both have to get a permit and pay a fee. Once the state has issued the certificate it could care less.
When a couple are married in the church, the church becomes part of their lives. They are married, not only to each other, but the church community. The community cares about their marriage. It makes them feel welcome. It is there to help when in need. It is there for the couple to offer themselves to help others. None of this is incorporated in the state.
So, let's be honest. The state does not marry. It issues licenses for a fee. To the state a civil union, beauty shop or auto repair shop are the same.
So when the state marries a gay couple it is a civil union and nothing more.
Religious sacraments should
By Kelly (not verified) on Tuesday, November 10, 2009Religious sacraments should not grant legal rights and benefits to the citizens of a secular society. We don't live in a theocracy and we can't, therefore, impose our morals on citizens--many of whom are not members of our faith.
Why can the Catholic Church deny homosexuals their legal rights? A married person can't be compelled to testify against their spouse in court. Marriage to an American gives a foreign spouse a green card. How is this related to one's religion or sexual practices?
I'm sorry, but there are plenty of heterosexual perverts out there. Just go online and look at some of the pornographic offerings that are wildly popular with hetero men. Yet, we don't withhold Social Security survivor benefits from those perverts when the long-suffering wife dies.
If the Church wants to reject 10% of our population when our own catechism teaches that God made them that way -- well, that's poor judgment on the Church's part, in my opinion. But the Church has no right to deny American people the legal rights of citizenship simply because it does not approve of how they live their lives.
Gay sex does not destroy the institution of marriage, DIVORCE does. So where are the ballot initiatives across the country to make divorce illegal? I think we're a Church full of sanctimonious hypocrites.
What is the point . .
By Anonymous (not verified) on Saturday, November 7, 2009"The purpose of marriage is far more complex and nuanced than simply to 'propagate the species' . . . Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church goes on several pages describing marriage and all its nuances. It's an interesting read - try it sometime. But it begins by saying marriage was authored by God when He created man and woman and instructed them to be fruitful. It also refers to the complimentary nature of male and female. And goes on to mention the existance of marriage in every culture in human society.
If you've ever known a macrobiotic or know anything about Taoism you've heard of the Yin and the Yang - two opposite forces in nature always seeking a balance and ultimately - union - wholeness. Two Yins make a whole? Two Yangs make a whole? Sorry, folks. It ain't gonna happen.
Homosexuals may succeed in changing the laws of society. They have organized into a very aggressive and very wealthy lobby effort and have succeeded in buying the media and some state legislatures. But even if they do change the laws of society - society cannot give them what they really want - perfect union. That is only God's to give. And the laws of God (and nature) are not ours to change.
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