In terms of the Conservative/liberal conversation that we have been asked to partake in, I am not sure if what is being adderssed is about the Conservative/liberal conflict within The Church or the one within our Secular political enviorment. I know that there is some overlap, but there also are some significant differences. My comments, for the most part can be applied to both sides.

At this point I can't say that I am very interested in spending a lot of energy participating in a "Who is right" between Conservative and Liberal (I feel that there is something much more important and dangerous happening). That is a discussion that has been going on for centuries, and was often the justification of terrible oppression and many wars. Also, I just feel so strongly that those who suscribe to either position are needed at the table. My reasons for believing this is not just an attempt to make all sides happy. It is much more than that. I believe this for several reasons. One is that different situations require different responses and different times requires different responses and. Finally, I have been influenced by Carl Jung's statement that "stability is the tension of opposites".

What I have is a growing concern about is how, once one attaches oneselve to a Conservative or Liberal ideology, there are dangers that lurk. Amoung these dangers is the tendency to see the other side as the cause of all and any problems and to actually demonize those on the other side no matter how often we talk about "hating the sin, but loving the siner". (Clearly there is a wonderful truth to this when applied properly, but also great oppression has been done with this as a cover). Just think about how much effort has been given to, what I believe, is a the deliberate attempt to establish a dissmissive contempt by the spiners for the words "Conservative", "Liberal", "triditional" or even "Feminist". Unfortunately, there has been success with doing this. It succeeds in shooting the messenger even before the messenger can get out his or her message. This has lead to a lot of hate. Also, there is a tendency on both sides to identify the opposite by the extreme; the people who promote the extream and apologist and supporters of those people. That seldom gives an accurate picture of just who a conservative or liberal is likely to be, and at worst this too promotes a self-rightous hate.

Generally the opposite side will be judged solely by their failures - real or imagined. And the side one is on will invaritablly be judged by its successes, again, real or imagined. The successes of the opposite side and the failures of the favored side will be ignored, even denied. Added to this is, once when one has an ego/emotional attachment to a person or ideology, they are no longer in a position to judge them or their behavior clearly. It too often becomse not, just respect of the individual, but the cult of personality. I have witnesed some very powerful and courageous behavior by individuals on both sides of the spectrum. Yet, what will almost always happen in these situations is that, since they showed such wisdom and courage in one area where they or their way proved to be correct, than they must have the same wisdom in other areas. I have not found that to neccesarily be the case.

There will also be a tendency to filter all those on the other side thru the lens of those who representive the extreme philosophy of that side. Each side has estremes and kooks. Generally, most do not support these people, but that is not how the other side tends to want to represent them.

Finally, we have a desparate need for our religious leaders to lead. To lead us in an honest and respectful conversation about many issues facing The Church and society today. It goes beyond leading a particular position. It involves actively pursuing a respectful dialogue from those partaking in the conversation. Sometimes one must rebuke the siner whose position is the same as our or The Church's, when they are bearing false witness or promoting hate in order to promote that position. We have failed to see the damage which is done; often the ugly, unchristian means to achieve a goal which we see as "God's way or will". I can't help but think that those who do this have very little faith in the power of prayer and the Holy Spirit.

I will leave you with a quote from the Sufi poet Rumi; "Outside of all notions of right and wrong, there is a field, won't you join me there." I like to relfect on this when my position is different form someone else and when the tension from that begins to overwhelm my realization of the value of that person and his/her sole. Many times the value of that sole is outside our differences.

Be you left, right or center, may you have the peace of the risen Lord.

John David

“A wise man creates order.”
Saint Thomas Aquinas

My musings on your topic are that faith seeks understanding but reason must examine faith or faith becomes based only sentiment and experience, which changes with the passing wind.

Conversely, if reason is not allowed to examine faith than faith has no right to address what the world considers reasonable to do.

A scientific society must always act as if God exists to be morally responsible and the individual must seek the God of all consolation and not the consolations of God, as in the latter one is just attempting to serve their own selfish needs.

This can lead to the desire to change what God is to suit the individual rather than assenting to the difficult order that right before us all.

Timothy+